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Pitch to Contact Redux

Pitch to contact.

It’s a phrase whose meaning seems completely obvious to everyone who hears it — except that nobody seems to be able to agree, exactly, on a definition. For some, it means that you should put the ball over the plate repeatedly, eschewing both strikeouts and walks and relying completely on the defense behind you for your success. For others, it means you should rely on your stuff and put the ball over the plate, and let the balls fall where they may. Maybe some people don’t even see the difference between those definitions.

Sometimes, it can seem like “pitch to contact” is the only way some guys can survive in the league; could Nick Blackburn succeed if he were nibbling on the corners and walking guys in an effort to strike them out, or does he need to put the ball in the strike zone and hope the balls find gloves?

But other times, “pitch to contact” seems foolish, like when you’re talking about the antithesis of Nick Blackburn, one Francisco Liriano. His main talent is inducing swings and misses — literally pitching away from contact — and that has always been where his value lies. This, I think, is what frustrates so many fans when the Twins insist to Liriano that he should be pitching to contact. It seems, from far away, that he should be doing the exact opposite of that.

And, from my vantage point far away, it seems like Liriano also thinks that he should be doing the opposite of that. In 2010, Liriano had an unusually high 33% of balls put into play become hits behind him — a pitcher doesn’t have total control over how many balls the defense will convert into outs behind him, and all pitchers generally allow between 29-30% to become hits — which is why his tremendous strikeout-to-walk ratio didn’t translate into an equally-sparkling ERA and win/loss record. It’s a primary reason Liriano’s 2010 was described as “unlucky.” It stands to reason, then, that Liriano would react by avoiding contact, by trying to take more of the game into his own hands, by trying to rely less on his defense, which had repeatedly failed him all year.

This spring, I went to a game at Hammond Stadium that Liriano started. He only last three innings — and he struck out nine guys. Every out he recorded was via a strikeout. Of course, he also allowed four hits and three walks; and those seven baserunners in three innings amounted to one run. That start was a microcosm of everything that is right with Liriano, that is wrong with Liriano, that goes Liriano’s way, and that goes against him. And it’s further evidence, I think, in the mind of the pitcher that he can’t rely on the defense. If the batter makes any contact at all, they get a hit. So why in the world would he want to pitch to contact, and thus get shelled?

What I’m saying is that I can fully understand why Liriano would think that pitching to contact is a bad idea, and why he wouldn’t want to submit his chances for success to the sub-par defense behind him, and to the cruel fates who’ve decided that luck isn’t on his side.

And I can also easily understand that the Twins don’t want him trying to do everything himself — you can’t strikeout everyone, and if you try you’ll end up throwing too many sliders out of the zone and walk a guy every inning and run your pitch count so high you have to get pulled early in the game. A pitcher has to understand that he cannot control every outcome; he can only put himself in the best position to take advantage of the breaks that must eventually come his way.

But the real definition of “pitch to contact” continues to elude. Gardy has done his part to inject some confusion into the dialog:

“We understand that he can strike people out, but if he really wants to become a pitcher, pitch to contact.”

Statements like that lend credence to the “pitch-to-contact means stop trying to strike people out” camp, of which Liriano apparently counts himself a member (after a start against the Royals in which he successfully “pitched to contact” while giving up five straight singles):

Liriano said he was “throwing more fastballs than I used to in the game today,” adding, “I just wanted them to put them to put the ball in play, not try to strike out a lot of people.”

This debate has been raging among fans all season, fueled by the burgeoning loss column, and by each miserable Liriano start, and by Pavano’s league-worst strikeout rate.

On Monday, the heavyweights of the Twins blogosphere drew lines in the sand. Nick Nelson took the position that the Twins have been trying to tell Liriano to pitch well, and that his struggles are all on him and his command.

When Liriano was struggling he was barely throwing 50% strikes. How does that qualify as “pitching to contact”? Seems like an excuse. (@nnelson9)

I’d say that yesterday Liriano did exactly what the Twins want him to do. Throw strikes early in count, get ahead, then unleash the nasty. (@nnelson9)

Aaron Gleeman took the position that “pitch to contact” doesn’t seem to exactly mean the same thing as “pitch well,” and that the Twins have been confusing.

And you’re saying the Twins basically just wanted him to pitch well, in which case they sure phrased that oddly. (@aarongleeman)

If they just wanted him to “throw strikes” I don’t see why they wouldn’t say that. What they said was different. (@aarongleeman)

So you’re saying all the Twins did was phrase “throw strikes” poorly and now Liriano is just making excuses? That’s a tough sell. (@aarongleeman)

Nelson continued:

I think it’s clear Twins wanted him to do just what he did yesterday. 66% strikes, lots of quick outs, still plenty of K’s. (@nnelson9)

“Pitch to contact” is just their terminology. People acting like they were trying to turn him into Duensing is insane. (@nnelson9)

I think he gets in a mentality sometimes where he gets too fine, tries to make every pitch unhittable, racks up huge p-counts (@nnelson9)

Saying, “Throw the ball over the plate early in the count, your stuff is great, don’t be afraid of contact” = right approach. (@nnelson9)

So, after watching the argument from the sidelines,* who’s right here?

* Gleeman later pointed out that “having long, public Twitter conversations with people you often instant message with feels weird.” Basically, this was a private conversation, one that friends and strangers have had thousands of times in every bar in the country … and this one had an audience of thousands. I’m going to go ahead and call this one of the wonders of Twitter.

Nelson’s basic premise assumes that he understands what the Twins have been trying to say with their “pitch to contact” mantra. That when they say “pitch to contact,” they don’t mean “be like Nick Blackburn and give up a lot of hits,” which is how it sometimes seems. So what are the Twins saying about that?

To clarify, it wasn’t that Gardenhire and Anderson instructed Liriano to get rid of the strikeouts and pitch to the barrel of opponents’ bats in April. They simply told Liriano, “Don’t be afraid (of contact),” Anderson said.

“You can’t strike everyone out on the first pitch. Your stuff’s pretty good to get to two strikes. …

“That was basically ‘attack them more, trust your stuff.’ But if you back up farther, it’s more or less, ‘keep yourself under control and let your pitches work,’ like you saw (Sunday).”

Rick Anderson, clearly, falls into the “what the Twins mean is that pitch-to-contact means ‘pitch well’” camp. (Which is utterly unsurprising, of course, because it strains belief that the pitching coach would actively want to make Liriano a worse pitcher, which has sometimes been the accusation around the blogosphere.)

It seems, then, that Nelson has understood what the Twins have been trying to say in way that many others haven’t. When the Twins explain themselves more explicitly, they’re saying exactly what Nelson says they mean. Still, it’s hard to quibble with Gleeman’s position that a) why not just say “throw strikes and trust your stuff” and scuttle the “pitch to contact” terminology that is so confusing? and b) whenever Liriano has tried to “pitch to contact” he’s been focused on the contact and it hasn’t worked at all.

Liriano, meanwhile, may have misunderstood the coaches in the same way that most fans have. Here’s what he said after another bad start last month:

“To be honest, yeah, it’s a little bit hard for me,” Liriano said about pitching to contact. “But I want to go deeper into games, I don’t want to be throwing four innings, five innings. Whatever I have to do to go deeper into games.”

And this week, after nearly no-hitting the Rangers:

“I’ve always been the power pitcher, trying to strike out people,” Liriano said. “I’m not the guy who’s going to get 10 groundballs or 12 groundballs in a game. I’m trying to be me, (the way) I used to pitch last year and the year before. I’m not thinking about contact at all. …

“I feel more comfortable pitching like that (power guy).”

So, if there are misunderstandings among the fans as to what exactly the Twins mean when they say “pitch to contact,” well, I don’t think it’s that surprising. They haven’t successfully explained it to their best pitcher either. Is that Liriano’s fault, or is it on Gardenhire and Anderson? Like most failures in communication, I think a little bit of blame goes to both sides.

Gleeman and Liriano, like Nelson and the Twins, all have a point. Liriano does need to learn to pitch, and he can’t just try to strike everyone out every time. He needs to learn to rely on his defense, but even more than that he needs to learn to trust his stuff — hitting a baseball is the hardest thing you can do, and Liriano’s stuff is good enough that most major league hitters can’t make good contact even when it’s in the strike zone. Liriano needs to grasp the intrinsic difficulty of hitting, and take advantage of it. Part of that is that he needs to stop dancing outside the zone in hopes of tempting the hitter to swing at something he can’t even reach.

At the same time, though, the Twins need to make more of an effort to explain to him what exactly they mean when they tell him that. A good teacher isn’t one that is always right — it’s one that knows his students well enough to say exactly what each of them needs to hear in order to learn. “Pitch to contact” might be clear enough for Blackburn, but it is obviously not clear enough for Liriano. So they should probably stop saying it, and stick to different platitudes like “throw strikes” and “trust your stuff” when it comes time to teach him.

It’s a learning moment for everyone, then, from the fans to Liriano to the Twins. All thanks to an oddly public conversation on Twitter.

  • Ab

    meh…this just illustrates the problem with people making conclusions about what is going on within a clubhouse by only reading quotes gathered by a third person.  Just curious why none of these guys approached the Twins for comment or at least try to get media credentials to go ask the real questions rather than speculating pointlessly.  Get out of your mom’s basement and go find the answers yourself :)

  • Anonymous

    Um, I can’t tell how serious you’re being, but I don’t think every single person can get media credentials and go into the clubhouse and ask questions. In a huge way, fans do rely on quotes published by the beat writers.

    That being, of course, one of the best things beat writers do: get fans closer to the game.

  • David Rasmussen

    Rather than trying to explain good pitching, the Twins should make Roy Halladay games available to him.  Halladay and Liriano are equally talented, except that Halladay knows how to keep his pitch count low, thus is much more valuable.   On a 3-2 count to a strong hitter, the Halladay approach is to throw a pitch that will not be fouled off.  A walk (or strikeout or hit) is better than using up all of the bullets. 

    I agree with Liriano that “pitch to contact” is stupid people saying stupid things. 

    Also, Liriano pitched in snow, in hail, and primarily in cold weather earlier this year.  He demonstrated that he is not effective in bone numbing conditions.  You may love Target Field, but the Metrodome offered a more player friendly environment.  I suspect Twins fans can’t say this because they buy the Target Field hype.

  • David Rasmussen

    I agree with Liriano (and Gleeman) that “pitch to contact” is stupid people saying stupid things.

    The correct approach if Liriano is to improve is to model off Roy Halladay, who on occasion will walk a strong hitter on a 3-2 count rather than let his pitch count elevate.  Play Liriano some Halladay games!

    Also, this whole conversation is somewhat of a distraction from what is a primary reason Liriano got off to a slow start.  He pitched during snow.  He pitched during hail.  Generally, the temperature was below 50 F.   These conditions are different from the conditions where Liriano has proven himself effective.

    Sorry for the dual post. I didn’t think I was logged in when I first posted.

  • TT

    “all pitchers generally allow between 29-30% to become hits”

  • TT

    “all pitchers generally allow between 29-30% to become hits”

    That is flat out wrong. The AVERAGE result for balls in play is 30%. But most good pitchers do better than that, many a lot better.That includes every HOF pitcher, including all the great power pitchers. 

    As far as I can tell, all pitch to contact means is trying to get hitters to swing at good, difficult pitches. It means throwing strikes even if you are ahead in the count, instead of trying to get hitters to chase pitches out of the strike zone. It doesn’t mean NOT striking batters out because difficult pitches sometimes miss bats entirely. Or a batter will take a pitch they don’t think they can handle and hope the umpire calls it a ball.

    The alternative is trying to “miss bats”. Throwing a pitch in the dirt or just off the plate with two strikes, hoping to trick the batter into swinging at it.If he chases the pitch and misses, great, you have your strike out. But if he doesn’t, instead of closing the deal with the batter forced to try to hit a pitch he can’t handle, you are giving away your advantage.

    With his stuff working, Liriano is going to get some strikeouts. But that shouldn’t be his objective. His objective should be to get batters to swing at pitches they can’t handle. They will miss some entirely for strikeouts. But they will also hit a lot weak flies and groundballs when they only get a small piece of the ball. That seems to me to be what Gardy calls “pitching to contact”.

  • skore

    Great pitchers don’t necessarily have great BABIP numbers. Roy Halladay’s career BABIP is .294. Randy Johnson – .295.

  • David Rasmussen

    Liriano has a great slider, a very good change up and a so-so fastball per the historical results against these various pitches.  This does not mean he should throw fewer fastballs (52% of his pitches this year), because throwing a fastball makes his other pitches more effective.  But, when a hitter knows a fastball is coming, then Liriano is not even an average pitcher.  He becomes below average. 

    The real question is whether he should “give in to hitters” and “pitch to contact” by predictably throwing fastballs in fastball counts.  Against a bad hitter, in a fastball count, at risk of walking some bad hitters, he should try for a strike out, as a bad hitter is not going to foul off a bunch of balls and elevate the pitch count.  Against a good hitter, at risk of walking some hitters, even in a fastball count, he should stay unpredictable, and if the result is a walk, at least the pitch count was not elevated.  Maybe Liriano should “pitch to contact” and throw more fastballs in fastball counts to average hitters, but then again, if his other pitches are working, then why should he? 

    So, everyone agrees Liriano should try to stay ahead of the count and should try to keep his pitch count low.  Beyond that, there seems to be some serious disagreement.

  • TT

    David -

    Isn’t this true of every pitcher?

    “But, when a hitter knows a fastball is coming, then Liriano is not even an average pitcher.  He becomes below average. ” If you use your fastball mostly after you are behind in the count, you are going to get poor results. I am not sure that has much to do with pitching to contact. If you get behind in the count by missing with your change up and slider and then come in with fastball, I am not sure the problem is your fastball.

  • David Rasmussen

    All of Roy Halladay’s pitches gives better than league average results.  When Halladay throws a cutter, it gets exception results.  When he throws a fastball, results are still better than league average.    When Liriano throws a fastball, in contrast, hitters have hit very well.

    The issue, whether due to pitch selection or pitch quality, is that when Liriano throws fastballs, hitters see grapefruits.

    My interpretation of “pitch to contact” is to not walk batters and therefore to give into hitters when behind the count by throwing fastballs.  You and I would prefer he mixes up his pitches better and is not predictable.  We agree the problem is not so much the fastball as the mixing it up.

  • Rghrbek

    Wow, great to see a post here boys!  Liriano conversation usually get’s Sean fired up!

    When the Twins told Frankie to pitch to contact, it was exactly what they meant.  Nick Blackburn style.  They did not like what they saw and wanted to get him throwing strikes.  It was wrong and silly.

    Now that Frank is pitching well, and becoming that strikeout guy again, they are all trying to save face and to say, “well that’s what we meant.”  Ridiculous.  I agree with Gleeman 100% on this point.

    As far as Frankie’s fastball, well, I think it’s his most important pitch.  It sets everything else up.  It might be his most hittable pitch, but it’s all about location.  If he is throwing first pitch strikes (which he did not do Sunday), and also hitting those corners (which he did do Sunday…a lot), then his changeup becomes borderline devastating.

    We all know what his slider can do.

    Ultimately, Frankie is going to be that guy who on some days can no hit you, and on other days he might go 5 innings with 110 pitches.  I think that is just who he is.  He’s still our best pitcher bar none right now.

  • Anonymous

    Haha, yes, I do seem to always jump into the fray when Liriano is involved. Maybe it’s just what I needed to get going again.

  • TT

    Its true, just as not every great hitter has a great batting average. But most are at least slightly above average. In the case of pitchers, every member of the Hall of Fame has an above average BABIP, just as Halladay and Johnson do. 

  • TT

    By “above average” I really mean “better than average”.

  • TT

    David -

    I think you missed the point. How many fastballs does Halladay throw when behind in the count and the hitter knows a fastball is coming? 

    Liriano’s problem was that he was throwing a high percentage of fastballs in those sorts of situations. Its not surprising a high percentage of them were going for hits. It has nothing to do with the quality of the fastball, its the situation where he was throwing them. 

  • David Rasmussen

     No disagreement here. If the pitch selection is predictable, Liriano will not do well.  Formulas such as “throw a first pitch fastball” or “throw a fastball on a 3-2 count” only work until the batters figure out the formula.

  • TT

    That depends on the quality of the fastball and its location doesn’t it? Most pitchers throw fastballs most of the time. Hitters know that. The problem with getting behind in the count is that you can’t afford to hit the corners with your fastball any more, not that the batter can anticipate a fastball is coming. 

  • David Rasmussen

    The Twins disagree, but in a lot of situations, Liriano just needs to keep mixing it up and throwing good pitches, and if that means giving up a walk, then that might be for the best– rather than throwing eight consecutive 3-2 fastballs that get fouled off first.

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